Here is some archeological evidence for the reality of Mount Sinai and its' supernatural happenings recorded in the Bible , which then means the reality of the Bible, which then means the reality of God.
If true, it is also evidence about the exodus of the Hebrews (Israel).
Check out this video on youtube about two men on their search for Mount Sinai. One is a christian and the other is not (it sounds like).
This is another great video and definately food for thought!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A08_oRBAVPA
(5 parts)
Enjoy!
P.S. The picture is not of the mountain :) It is a picture from Israel that I took...in fact most of the pictures on my blog are from my trip to Israel.
Dan,
ReplyDeleteHow is the reality of Mount Sinai proof of anything other than the fact that there is a Mount Sinai?
Is the city of Troy evidence for the Greek Gods?
Is Kings Cross Station evidence for Harry Potter?
Is Alkali Lake proof of the X-Men?
Nobody has ever, that I know of, doubted that there are historical facts in the Bible. There are numerous references to people and places that were not confirmed until after the fact - but unless you find a burning bush atop the Mount; it's just a geological location, like Mt Olympus, that has a story attached to it.
Proof of the location does not equal proof of the claimed activities that went on there.
And you were doing so well with the evidence thing!
Regards,
Hey Matt,
ReplyDeleteObviously you haven't watched it yet. Please do!
Notice I said evidence, not proof... although I think it is very strong evidence. It is more than just a mountain. It is not the tranditional one. They used the Bible as a map to find the real one, they used Josephus's accounts aswell.
"Proof of the location does not equal proof of the claimed activities that went on there."
There is evidence to the activities that went on there.
"And you were doing so well with the evidence thing!"
Is that sarcasm? Sorry couldn't tell :)
Thanks for your comment,
DB
Is that talkorigins link you gave me of 29 evidences of macro-evolution reliable? I suppose you think it is since you gave it to me. I skimmed the transitional fossils bit. Interesting, I can see what they are saying but I can still see what creationists are saying. They could be designed creatures with a bit of micro-evolution thrown in the mix. Like the human-ape links, from memory several links turned out to be actual people with a disease (like arthritus) or an ape.
ReplyDeleteHmmmmmmm...sigh. Who knows? I won't deny that there is evidence for macro-evolution but I just don't know what to think? NE Way thankyou for the info :)
Also note Matt that David Pawson in the covenants talk mentions how people have been brain-washed into thinking we are just animals through evolution. From what I know he accepts the possibility of an old earth. I am not sure what he thinks of human evolution but I also know he accepts the possibility of macro-evolution in plants.
One sermon (if I recall correctly) he said that he was reading darwin's book on origins and he thought that Darwin was a firm believer in God especially in his last chapter. From memory he read a bit where Darwin stated that what he found should not damage anyone's religious views.
I understand he accepts the possibility of evolution (he sat under one of the leading evolutionists in Britian during one of his degrees and that tutor emphasised to him that it was a theory and was not proven)
I think that is where I stand at the moment. But as I said before I still cannot see how all this around us was a mere accident. These are the points that C.S. Lewis argues from, (as he believed in evolution) that there must be a God because of our existance and the type of our existance. I like his argument from reason :) It is not proof there is a God but is strong evidence that there is one.
If there is no God and we weren't designed to think then how can we trust our own thinking? One thought just causes another...like a set of dominos. So we can't use thought to disbelieve God :)
Unless you want to commit intellectual suicide LOL!
Da Bomb,
ReplyDeleteI watched all the videos and, I have to say, it was pretty much what I expected.
I had always thought, as many do, that Mt Sinai was a well-established location in the Middle East, but apparently not.
So these guys, following the descriptions in the Bible, discover where the actual location of the mountain is. Well done to them - that's an accomplishment on a par with the guy who found the ruins of Troy.
So?
If you are satisfied that the circular rocks they found are evidence of the twelve pillars (representing the 12 tribes) then you've got no business questioning the conclusions drawn by scientists when looking at the evidence for evolution because it is far more compelling!
As I said, I'm sure that this is the mountain described in the book of Exodus - but that doesn't mean that any of the miraculous accounts from that story are true anymore than the finding of Troy means that the Greek gods were involved in the battle there.
My Hypothesis:
A small group of Hebrews escaped bondage in Egypt and fled across the Red Sea (using that cool coral reef), led by a guy who later became known as Moses. They story of this escape was told and retold for many generations until it became codified in the book known as Exodus, by which point the story had been added to to incorporate the involvement of the deity as a proof of the special nature of their tribe and God's watchful eye being always on them.
It's not really possible to prove or disprove this either way - but without any evidence that supernatural events occurred, we can't just assume that they did; unless you take a leap of faith based on the fact that you already believe the whole story to be true.
Call me skeptical..... ;)
Still it's very interesting and a very important cultural and historical find.
Now, if they found Mt. Ararat with a giant boat buried beneath the topsoil.....
Hey Matt,
ReplyDelete"Call me skeptical..... ;)"
That's your choice :)
"If you are satisfied that the circular rocks they found are evidence of the twelve pillars (representing the 12 tribes) then you've got no business questioning the conclusions drawn by scientists when looking at the evidence for evolution because it is far more compelling!"
I have got reason to question it until I am convinced.
How would you scientificaly/naturalisticly explain away the black burnt rocks with brown middles, that aren't volcanic and only found on that mountain?
or
The huge split rock that shows signs of huge amounts of water gushing from it in the middle of a desert?
"A small group of Hebrews escaped bondage in Egypt and fled across the Red Sea (using that cool coral reef), led by a guy who later became known as Moses."
Wow, you admited that? I remember some atheist saying that there is no evidence (or maybe he meant proof...can't remember) of Israel ever being in Egypt!?!? :)
At least your not as ignorant as that.
Thanks for taking the time to watch it.
DB
Hey Da Bomb,
ReplyDeleteYou said;
"I have got reason to question it until I am convinced."But you do see that you are more easily convinced of something you want to believe in, as opposed to something you're not quite sure about, right? I'm the same; it's not unusual!
"How would you scientificaly/naturalisticly explain away the black burnt rocks with brown middles, that aren't volcanic and only found on that mountain?
or
The huge split rock that shows signs of huge amounts of water gushing from it in the middle of a desert?".
You're right, of course, I have no explanation for these findings and it would be foolish of me to attempt an explanation (although I note that Christians with absolutely no science background are more than happy to toss out explanations to dismiss evolutionary biologists) - being as I have no training or expertise in geology or hydrology. I'd leave that to the experts, except...
...well, they didn't present an alternative viewpoint, did they? Was a professional consulted at all to review their findings?
Teach the controversy! Tell both sides of the story etc...
By the way, is there any evidence for the Hebrews being in Egypt? I had heard that there was no evidence that a huge tribe of Hebrews had 'wondered in the desert for 40 years', but I wasn't sure about the Egypt thing. Could you point me to a reference?
Cheers,
Hello Matt,
ReplyDeleteAbout comments moderation that I have on...I was wondering if I took it off will it still alert me as to what new comments have been placed? That's probably the main reason why I have it. By the way thankyou for your language that you use...it has been very clean and I havn't had to warn of any unreasonable language. Thankyou thankyou thankyou!
It's been a pleasure to discuss without abuse.
"But you do see that you are more easily convinced of something you want to believe in, as opposed to something you're not quite sure about, right? I'm the same; it's not unusual!"
ReplyDeleteYes I can see what you are saying. Although it is not just because I want to believe it but it is also because I already believe it :)
It may be the same with evolution for you and for me. I havn't accepted it hook line and sinker yet so I my not accept evidence about it as readily as you.
"I note that Christians with absolutely no science background are more than happy to toss out explanations to dismiss evolutionary biologists) - being as I have no training or expertise in geology or hydrology. I'd leave that to the experts, except...
...well, they didn't present an alternative viewpoint, did they? Was a professional consulted at all to review their findings?
Teach the controversy! Tell both sides of the story etc..."
Well I don't know of any other explanations maybe sometime I could look but immediatly nothing natural comes to mind of course, it's pretty amazing. If there are none, then would you accept it is "supernatural", don't be scared of that word, all it means is something outside of nature...not natural.
"Tell both sides of the story"
If there are two sides.
"By the way, is there any evidence for the Hebrews being in Egypt? I had heard that there was no evidence that a huge tribe of Hebrews had 'wondered in the desert for 40 years', but I wasn't sure about the Egypt thing. Could you point me to a reference?"
Um I found some a while ago, I'll see if I can find it for you...
There is evidence in this video though, they talk about the style of the calf gods being Egyptian, the arrow heads were Egyptian. Which the video suggests the Hebrews got from Egypt while in slavery. The Bible is evidence, but of course you don't accept this as rational evidence...yet :) I'm praying for you Matt!
Note: I'm not out here to win argumentative battles but to tell people the truth.
Cya,
Dan
I'm not sure about the comments thing - I don't have it on my blog and I don't get alerts so I sometimes miss comments on older posts. I think if you subscribe (RSS) to your own blog then you get email updates when new comments have been posted.
ReplyDeleteNo worries on the language; my mama dint raise no fool! Although, I will swear like a trooper in the appropriate place!
And yes, I'd love to have a look at that Exodus evidence when you find it.
ReplyDeleteCheers!
Here is an article I found ages ago that I thought was interesting about Israel in Egypt.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.christiananswers.net/
q-abr/abr-a027.html
They seem to be honest...here is the last paragraph or two of the article:
"Without identifying inscriptions, we will never know for sure if the earlier people were Israelites. [11] Contemporary references to Jacob's 12 sons have not been found. Since the sons of Jacob were humble shepherds, we should not expect to find such records, except possibly for Joseph.[12] However, there are ancient references to several of the tribes of Israel which, of course, were named after the sons of Jacob. So, in an indirect way, we do have inscriptional references to the sons of Jacob, albeit from a later time.
This much we can say about the discoveries in Rameses. The finds represent exactly what we would expect to find from Israelite occupation in Egypt."
Dan,
ReplyDeleteIt doesn't look, from that link, like there's very much evidence at all. I mean, they find the ruins of an old villa and say; 'yep, that's probably where Joseph lived'.
Not terribly convincing. I was expecting, you know, tax record from the Egyptian kingdom or abandoned refugee camps in the desert or something.
Is there anything else?
Cheers,
"Is there anything else?"
ReplyDeleteNo I do not have anything else. Though I have not done a thorough search.
"This much we can say about the discoveries in Rameses. The finds represent exactly what we would expect to find from Israelite occupation in Egypt."
This quote from the article I think puts it quite well. Is there any evidence against there being Israelites in Egypt?
Is there any evidence against the Native Americans being a lost tribe of Israel?
ReplyDeleteDoesn't mean it's true though, does it? You'd probably want some good evidence for it being true before you gave it any credence, right?
The quote you cited didn't really seem to follow from the very speculative interpretations they had previously presented in the article.
Cheers,
Hey Matt,
ReplyDelete"Is there any evidence against the Native Americans being a lost tribe of Israel?"
"Doesn't mean it's true though, does it? You'd probably want some good evidence for it being true before you gave it any credence, right?"
Of course it doesn't mean it is true. Though your example is extremely improbable and incomparable. Firstly Native Americans live on the other side of the world. Israelites live next door to Egypt.
There are records of Israel being in Egypt and none for Native Americans being in Egypt.
There is reason to suppose Israel could have been/was in Egypt but none for Native Americans.
I should have said:
"Is there any evidence contrary to there being Israelites in Egypt?"
Cya,
DB