tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5300869586016541037.post8021370773474683302..comments2023-10-24T03:48:03.925-07:00Comments on Pilgrimage: Dawkins Lennox Debate 2Daniel (Da Pilgrim)http://www.blogger.com/profile/17590499058101108349noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5300869586016541037.post-89359066643854849532009-06-22T01:10:42.024-07:002009-06-22T01:10:42.024-07:00Rats!
That really was just a preview :(
Finished ...Rats! <br />That really was just a preview :(<br />Finished on a potent question from Lennox though LOL. <br /><br />Thanks Matty!Daniel (Da Pilgrim)https://www.blogger.com/profile/17590499058101108349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5300869586016541037.post-74553988252632313752009-06-22T00:43:00.370-07:002009-06-22T00:43:00.370-07:00Hey KL,
"I'm not a fan of alcohol so tha...Hey KL,<br /><br />"I'm not a fan of alcohol so that's one sin I steer clear of with very little temptation."<br /><br />I am not a drinker as you are a non-drinker also, my 21st was a dry one. But I don't think the Bible portrays alcohol as a sin, only getting drunk.<br /><br />"If you ever feel you might be missing out on that kind of "fun"... don't. ;)"<br /><br />Na I don't feel like I am missing out on fun, LOL With God in our lives, that is all we need to make us happy and fulfilled. Though being a christian is tough at times and many others have experienced more than me regarding difficulties. God grows us, but it is exciting. I am happy to be free of alcohol, the life that God has given me has many more exciting aspects about it!<br /><br />Cya,<br /><br />DanDaniel (Da Pilgrim)https://www.blogger.com/profile/17590499058101108349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5300869586016541037.post-81266789154462645912009-06-22T00:31:17.173-07:002009-06-22T00:31:17.173-07:00Hey Michael!
Thanks for your comment,
Regarding ...Hey Michael!<br /><br />Thanks for your comment,<br /><br />Regarding your problems with Dawkin's statement...I can't agree more with you,<br />"design cannot precede evolution and therefore cannot underlie the universe."<br /><br />It is interesting how people like Dawkins accuse theists etc with the "God of the gaps" fallacy when they make the assumption that there must be a "naturalistic" explanation which is a presupposition.<br /><br />We can then turn on them and accuse them of a "Material of the gaps" fallacy :) which from my understanding naturalism is a highly improbable explanation for our universe than the belief in a Designer.<br /><br />Naturalism to me is also more narrow minded because it will only accept a natural explanation but a theist accepts more than that :)<br /><br />I can see that you believe God used evolution. I am un-sure whether He did or not, I think the Bible possibly leaves room for it. Many questions are still to be asked for me whether it is true or not. So at this stage I am an unbeliever in evolution. If I did believe in it I could only see that Someone possibly guided it and was involved. That would be the way Genesis shows it...that God made everything or molded it.<br /><br />I think C.S. Lewis believed in evolution.<br /><br />NE way,<br /><br />Good to have you here. I am going to try out those links Matty gave above.<br />(That is the Matthew Pyle from my 21st in case you may know him, he went to Israel with me)<br /><br />DanDaniel (Da Pilgrim)https://www.blogger.com/profile/17590499058101108349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5300869586016541037.post-39317199042045514002009-06-22T00:09:07.156-07:002009-06-22T00:09:07.156-07:00KL,
"I wonder how marriage was done in the e...KL,<br /><br />"I wonder how marriage was done in the early days. Adam and Eve had God himself marry them but what were the other marriage ceremonies like? It's to bad they don't talk about it in Genesis.<br /><br />Here's a biblical question for you. Where is the first marriage ceremony described? If you give me the passages if such a description exists, I'll read it :)"<br /><br />I have not looked exhaustively, but I think The foundation of marriage which is confirmed later on in the Bible is done in the beginning. Jesus Himself looked back to the beginning as an example of marriage.<br /><br />Matthew 19:<br />And He answered and said to them, "Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’<br />5 "and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?<br />6 "So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate."]<br /><br />I don't know what the marriage cerimonies were like back then. But as far as God is concerned, right from the beginning when one man and one woman come together to be one flesh, God means for them to stay together (God is the matchmaker LOL). Thus marriage cerimonies today are an affirmation of this.<br /><br />I found a C.S. Lewis quote that I have at the top of my page that testifies of my view and I believe the Bible's view on love.<br /><br />Cya,<br /><br />DanDaniel (Da Pilgrim)https://www.blogger.com/profile/17590499058101108349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5300869586016541037.post-73624011588388161792009-06-21T18:27:02.486-07:002009-06-21T18:27:02.486-07:00Hi Dan,
Just a comment RE: Dawkins' quote in ...Hi Dan,<br /><br />Just a comment RE: Dawkins' quote in there: "design cannot precede evolution and therefore cannot underlie the universe."<br /><br />There's two clauses in that statement<br />1st premise: design cannot precede evolution<br />2nd clause: therefore design cannot underlie the universe (what he doesn't say and is assumed is that the universe is evolving).<br /><br />Now the important thing is to examine the first premise, because you should never automatically accept a premise.<br /><br />"design cannot precede evolution"<br /><br />Why not? Is it truly impossible? Let me provide an example, that many people who have done school science or biology will be familiar with. As an experiment in observing bacterial growth, you get a petri dish containing agar jelly. Then you place some yeast/bacteria onto the agar. Step 3: you watch the bacteria flourish (this is, in a sense, an evolution).<br /><br />So we have A) designed an experiment and B) observed the natural process of the bacteria evolving as a result. This seems quite clearly to me of a case where design precedes evolution. It also seems like a neat little analogy for the Bible & God. He designed/created Earth & gave the first spark of life, but then allowed man & beast free-will to evolve in a way that is a direct result of their choices. God designed evolution.<br /><br />We can break Dawkins' argument into a syllogism:<br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylogism<br /><br />1. The universe is evolving<br />2. Design cannot precede evolution<br />3. Ergo design cannot underlie the universe<br /><br />I believe 2. is a false premise. Many scientists design experiments that then evolve of their own accord, so design in fact can precede evolution, thus negating/refuting his conclusion. If design can precede evolution (and I certainly think it can as scientists do it every day), then surely it remains possible that design does underlie the universe.<br /><br />MikeMotorbike Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17301269408170527711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5300869586016541037.post-5860282678941000762009-06-21T18:01:59.830-07:002009-06-21T18:01:59.830-07:00Congrads on your 21st :) My birthday is on the 21s...Congrads on your 21st :) My birthday is on the 21st so I had my 21st on the 21st but that was a decade and a bit ago ;) I was also in the USA at the time so that made it even more funny to me. I've never been much of a drinker but I was able to go see music at the local bars so that was cool.<br /><br />I'm not a fan of alcohol so that's one sin I steer clear of with very little temptation. Up here the drinking age is 19 but I live on the border of Quebec where it's 18... a lot of my friends would just get totally insanly drunk and I was always the one trying to keep a clear head so no one would kill themselves. Terrible stuff IMO but I will have the occasional sip of my hubbies red wine, any more then a sip and my tummy gets sore.<br /><br />I do thank God for my stomach problems in that regard, I've literally saved a few lives over the years because of my clear head in the presence of stupid drunk friends. Those are some of the reasons I've never been an atheist, I've been way lucky in my life for me to not believe in something more then just luck.<br /><br />If you ever feel you might be missing out on that kind of "fun"... don't. ;)Kerri Lovehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05368500873620219614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5300869586016541037.post-54527413405119179002009-06-21T17:37:15.902-07:002009-06-21T17:37:15.902-07:00Hey KL,
I have just had my 21st this weekend...it...Hey KL,<br /><br />I have just had my 21st this weekend...it went really great.<br /><br />"Feels like everything we went through was meant to be, otherwise we wouldn't have found each other."<br /><br />Thats cool, and I am happy for you!<br /><br />I'll get back to you on that marriage cerimony question...<br /><br />DBDaniel (Da Pilgrim)https://www.blogger.com/profile/17590499058101108349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5300869586016541037.post-41225201021381446452009-06-21T17:30:05.425-07:002009-06-21T17:30:05.425-07:00Thanks Matty!
You managed to get an account :)
I...Thanks Matty!<br /><br />You managed to get an account :)<br /><br />I'll check those out...it will be very interesting.<br /><br />God Bless!<br /><br />DanDaniel (Da Pilgrim)https://www.blogger.com/profile/17590499058101108349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5300869586016541037.post-27899227917593993172009-06-20T23:41:55.855-07:002009-06-20T23:41:55.855-07:00Hey, Matt here. A preview of the debate can be fou...Hey, Matt here. A preview of the debate can be found here in video: http://www.fixed-point.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=166:has-science-buried-god-preview&catid=40:preview&Itemid=18. And an audio version can be viewed or downloaded at: http://richarddawkins.net/article,3911,Richard-Dawkins-and-John-Lennox-at-the-Oxford-University-Museum,Richard-Dawkins-John-Lennox?detectqt=false&. Enjoy! Grace & peaceAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5300869586016541037.post-1107971041771723472009-06-19T15:33:05.325-07:002009-06-19T15:33:05.325-07:00You boys never do but you're cute so we let it...You boys never do but you're cute so we let it slide LOL <br /><br />I do understand the feeling, took me awhile but I finally found the man I was meant to be with. Feels like everything we went through was meant to be, otherwise we wouldn't have found each other.<br /><br />I wonder how marriage was done in the early days. Adam and Eve had God himself marry them but what were the other marriage ceremonies like? It's to bad they don't talk about it in Genesis.<br /><br />Here's a biblical question for you. Where is the first marriage ceremony described? If you give me the passages if such a description exists, I'll read it :)<br /><br />As for Dawkins, I'm sure he's an intelligent man. Being intelligent however, doesn't equal being smart though ;) I'll have to read a bit more before I determine that but he didn't seem all that smart in the clip from ExpelledKerri Lovehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05368500873620219614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5300869586016541037.post-70841559874895707442009-06-19T14:42:13.576-07:002009-06-19T14:42:13.576-07:00Hey KL,
Thanks for letting me know your thoughts....Hey KL,<br /><br />Thanks for letting me know your thoughts.<br />I haven't yet checked the responses to my post at Ray's :)<br /> <br />"I know you meant that marrying someone you love is priceless (which is oh so true!) but the way you said it left you wide open for people to say wanted to buy her LOL"<br /><br />Yeah I obviously meant the former which you got right! LOL<br /><br />'arch-apostle of atheism' I think you meant, I don't think he is very 'reasonable'. You can see him debate Lennox on a earlier post of mine. Lennox I think, had the upper hand.<br /><br />"Good luck with you and your future wife! I think you're a pretty good guy and I'm sure you're marrying a great woman :)"<br /><br />Many thanks, God has been so good to me by bringing us together. A wonderful girl about whom I feel like I don't deserve her!<br /><br />cheers,<br /><br />DBDaniel (Da Pilgrim)https://www.blogger.com/profile/17590499058101108349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5300869586016541037.post-54478031211113924932009-06-19T06:33:19.914-07:002009-06-19T06:33:19.914-07:00I didn't read this whole thing cause I'm n...I didn't read this whole thing cause I'm not all that interested in the man but my eye caught this and I thought it was pretty funny<br /><br /> arch-apostle of reason <br /><br />LOL<br /><br />I also wanted to tell you I thought your comment on the guy who was talking about marriage being expensive and you said "how much is she worth?" was funny ;)<br /><br />I know you meant that marrying someone you love is priceless (which is oh so true!) but the way you said it left you wide open for people to say wanted to buy her LOL<br /><br />So how much is she worth? A goat or a couple of camels? LOL, I just had to tease ya but I didn't want to encourage anyone to follow suit over there ;)<br /><br />There really isn't much excuse to not get married money wise, you can always get married without the huge ceremony and save money. <br /><br />Good luck with you and your future wife! I think you're a pretty good guy and I'm sure you're marrying a great woman :)Kerri Lovehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05368500873620219614noreply@blogger.com